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| calculating Broly's Zenkai; A analysis | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 3 2011, 12:21 AM (4,574 Views) | |
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May 3 2011, 12:21 AM Post #1 |
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So, down to the point. I'll first calculate Vegeta's Zenkai in the Freiza saga. Vegeta Fighting Kiwi: 24,000 Vegeta, after fighting Recoom: 250,000 1) Vegeta would be over 30,000 since Jheese said "Vegeta power level risen over 30,000 so he's been hiding his real power from us". 2) Vegeta took a 2hr nap and that helped him to recover some Ki to make his power level near to Frieza's 530,000, with some help from the zenkai he had gotten.. Anyway, for #1. 30,000. #2. 250,000-500,000 Wow. A 10X Zenkai... Let's calculate Goku's Zenkai. Saiyan Saga: 9000 Nearly dead IN Saiyan Saga: 10 First arrival in Namek: Goku (Full power): 90,000 That's ALSO a 10x boost. Sense Broly in movie 8 is in between Perfect Cell and Super Perfect Cell, i'll say his power level should be: Cell (Powered up): 5,500,000,000 FPSSJ Gohan (Full power): 4,600,000,000 Cell (Super perfect): 55,000,000,000 LSSJ Broly (movie 8) FP: 7,500,000,000 lSSJ Broly (movie) suppressed: 6,500,000,000 LSSJ Broly (movie 8) Powered up against Goku's Punch: 8,500,000,000 SSJ2 Gohan: 46 000,000,000 SSJ2 Gohan (Worn out): 19,000,000,000 Cell (Kamehameha): 60,000,000,000 SSJ2 Gohan (FP Kamehameha) 65,000,000,000 Isn't that ALSO a 10x boost? WTF is going on here? I'll tell ya. A Zenkai is a 10x boost, but because this does not make sense I have to keep going on . LSSJ Broly (movie 10) = 75 000 000 000 World Tournament saga+Babadi saga: FPSSJ Gohan: 3, 200,000,000 SSJ2 Gohan: 32,000,000,000 Doesn't that seem fair for Gohan? Let's use this difference for movie 10. FPSSJ Vegeta: 3, 600,000,000 FPSSJ Goten: 2 000,000,000 FPSSJ Trunks: 2 ,250,000,000 Now, SSJ2 Vegeta would be 36,000,000,000. If he ever was in movie 10. That would still put him below Broly. Goku in Babidi's Ship was FPSSJ Goku: 4,900,000,000 as a SSJ. If we multiply that by 10 for the multiplier of SS2 it would be: 49 000 000 000 When Vegeta was in Babidi's ship, he was a 4,800,000,000, multiply it by 10 he would 48,000,0000,000. Majin Vegeta would be 49,000,000,000 Majin Buu saga Buu is reborn FPSSJ Gohan: 3,500,000,000 Supreme Kai: 2,000,000,000 Dabura (Worn out): 3,000,000,000 Babadi: 4 Majin Buu (Calm): 10,000,000,000 Majin Vegeta: 49,000,000,000 Majin Buu (Angry): 76,000,000,000 Trunks: 450,000,000 Goten: 400,000,000 Piccolo: 1,300,000,000 Krillen: 70,000 FPSSJ Goten: 2,000,000,000 FPSSJ Trunks: 2,250,000,000 Majin Vegeta (Explosion): 90,000,000,000 Goku v Majin Buu Goku: 980,000,000 Krillen: 70,000 Piccolo: 1,300,000,000 Goten: 400,000,000 Trunks: 450,000,000 Majin Buu (Full power): 220,000,000,000 FPSSJ Goku: 4,900,000,000 SSJ2 Goku: 49,000,000,000 SSJ3 Goku: 245,000,000,000 Gotenks Goten: 400,000,000 Trunks: 450,000,000 Piccolo: 1,300,000,000 Gotenks: 45,000,000,000 Majin Buu: 220,000,000,000 Hercule: 16 FPSSJ Gotenks: 225,000,000,000 This also means Spc is above both SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta. Wow, that is *****ed up. I think this actually does make sense, if we think about it Zenkai's are a 10x boost applied to both Vegeta and Cell. Why wouldn't it apply to Broly because it does make sense. Like Necflix, i'm not Broly's biggest fan, but i'm sorry to say that Broly is stronger then both ss2 Goku and Vegeta. Why movie 10 ended in such a disgusting way, I dunno. Toei probably just rushed it, but lemme hear your arguments
Edited by Sircum, May 3 2011, 12:32 AM.
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| + Pyrus | May 3 2011, 12:35 AM Post #2 |
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The theory falls apart because Vegeta wasn't "over" 30,000. He was "about" 30,000. Goku also received numerous zenkais on his way to Namek, plus all of his training. |
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May 3 2011, 12:39 AM Post #3 |
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But you do know a zenkai is when someone is near death right? About 30,000 doesn't change anything sense his zenkai would still be x10 or even 20 for that matter. |
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| NeoSSayajin | May 3 2011, 12:41 AM Post #4 |
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Its a great job Sircum. But i put Goku's zenkai after the battle vs. Vegeta from 9.000 to 12.000 - 15.000, not 90.000. Remember that Goku trained the hole trip time to Namek, around 6 days in 100x gravity, that was that made him increase his PL. Then he gets severily injured vs Ginyu, and after he is healed again he rises to 3.000.000. I think that zenkais growing rate increase after each battle, and Broly has many confrontations in his story. I dont see Broly fighting at full power in Movie 8, he did powered up before Goku's punch, but in my opinion he rose from his 25% to his 50%, he never really thought that Goku will deliver that punch right on his stab scar. |
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| + Pyrus | May 3 2011, 12:44 AM Post #5 |
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Vegeta got one from his battle on Earth, from transformed Zarbon, from Recoome, and from Krillin. 18,000 -> 24,000 =/= 10x 24,000 -> 30,000 =/= 10x 30,000 -> ~500,000 =/= 10x ~500,000 -> ~2,500,000 =/= 10x Either way, Vegeta didn't get 10x stronger with each zenkai. Edited by Pyrus, May 3 2011, 12:46 AM.
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May 3 2011, 12:49 AM Post #6 |
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But he somehow did get 10x stronger, just like Cell did from Perfect to Super Perfect. But then 30,000 to 500,000 would be a 16.6666667x power up, that could still be applicable to Broly by these standards. And thanks to the guy above, I didn't take into acount a 9000 to the 12,000, but I believe the Diaz never stated Goku's Power level in the spaceship did it? Anywho, 2 500 000 divided by 500 000 = 5. 12,000 x 5 = 90,000 5,500,000,000 x 10 = 55,000,000,000 = SPC Cell Broly movie 8 to 10 7,500,000,000 x 10 =75,000,000,000 or 7 500 000 000 x 16.7 = 125 250 000 000 or 7,5x 5 = 7 500 000 000 x 5 = 37 500 000 000. One hand he is either extremely stronger then SPC and the SS2 Adults, or weaker. This is just a theory so it may not be applicaple to just Broly, so let's apply it to Cell to make this have a bit more sense. 5,500,000,000 x 5 = 27 500 000 000 So we have Broly and Cell either both extremely stronger then the SS2 Adults, or extremely weaker then them. Have your pick because either way Broly is going to wipe the floor with SPC's head. Edited by Sircum, May 3 2011, 12:55 AM.
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| + Pyrus | May 3 2011, 01:06 AM Post #7 |
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It took three zenkais for Vegeta to get 10x more powerful. It took Goku numerous zenkais plus intense training in 100G. Broly isn't going to get 10x more powerful in one zenkai, and neither is Cell, unless you've got the Super Saiyan 2 multiplier really high, like 20x or something. |
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May 3 2011, 01:15 AM Post #8 |
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There's no exact Zenkai calculator. I'll take the 3 I calculated which is 16.7, 10, and 5, divide it by 3 which the total is 10.5666667, which still gets sorta the same. As I was saying, either Broly and SPC is higher or lower then the Adults, but it's a well known fact Broly is stronger then Spc. The thing is Cell got an INSTA Zenkai that multiplied his power level by 10 or 2, nonthe less we have to apply that to Movie 8 Broly no matter what. Edited by Sircum, May 3 2011, 01:16 AM.
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May 3 2011, 01:37 AM Post #9 |
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I got confused at broly is stronger than super perfect cell, despite when not even powered up Spc is a high tier ssj2, and powered up would be at the brink of transformation...again. Broly's in movie 8 is only as strong as his ultimate form can make him, and essentially he was an ssjg3 form to its penultimate. His lack of training in stuff like that would mean his next one would be oozaru, since hes pretty much stunted in the middle of it. Despite his regenerating ki brolys power never topped this level, and didnt need to since no one could match his power until goku. Zenkais from what? the only zenkai he got was from when he was a baby. Thats it. So multiply that zenkai and you will get why broly was so powerful at that age. His Pl at birth was only 10 g's not ten milion. In the movie goku had no rosat and was barely a fpssj let alone an mssj, which would have handled broly in this movie nicely. A zenkai even from a genki punch can only be measured by his power level at the time and exactly how hurt he got x zenkai. BTW broly saw it coming and couldnt do anything about it, there was no way he thought he was gonna tank that. The look on his face said it all, he was spooked. In reality the fight with goku wasnt all that bad, his only real advantage was his overbearing size. Otherwise goku would have fought him to a standstill like he did frieza, and his pL gap with goku was wayyyyyyy higher. |
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May 3 2011, 01:42 AM Post #10 |
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What are you talking about? You do realize Broly's chest almost exploded and Broly almost died in movie 8 right? Not to mention everytime Broly transforms his skin explodes, that could also be a zenkai. |
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May 3 2011, 01:51 AM Post #11 |
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Uh brolys chest did explode, did you notice the corkscrew punch goku gave him? its pretty obvious it was a target, plus all of brolys power popping out of his skin like poppin fresh. No zenkais from the popping fresh dude. LOL, I know hes the LSS, but all that means is the golden hair and blank eyes. Goku discovered a new form of LSS, the only diff between them is that goku had to work for his LSS form from the bottom up while broly was born with is potential already unlocked. goku has to learn control of the form in order to get stronger. how could there ever be a question in anyones mind after demonstrating so many times before that goku always has a technique that can kill? he just chooses not to use them, any of them. The genki punch wasnrt some random idea, he ALWAYS knew that would hurt broly, but he wanted to give him a chance. You could argue broly the same way, truthfully, him and goku have the power to kill each other, but choose not to, why? cause they are CRAZY!! thats why. Its all part of the how and why these things happen. Brolys size and control of the power he did have was enough to keep up with goku. if goku was his size or broly still his? goku would have killed him.
Edited by Paikuan extreme, May 3 2011, 01:55 AM.
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May 3 2011, 02:18 AM Post #12 |
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Sorry but I can't debate with you atm. Gotta go sleep. Better luck for us both tmr. |
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| lunar2 | May 3 2011, 03:29 AM Post #13 |
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list of all confirmed zenkais for vegeta vegeta: earth: 18,000 -24,000. 30% increase zarbon: 24,000 - 30,000. 25% increase recoome: 30,000 - 500,000 16.67x increase krillin: 500,000 - 2,500,000 5x increase. no 10x zenkais. in fact, the "standard" zenkai is only 20-50%. only the last couple of zenkais after passing the ssj minimum are super zenkais that multiply power several times. now, cell's zenkai was a regular one. ssj2 is officially a 2x multiplier, although personally i tink that's too small, and use a 4x. either way, for cell to multiply his power by 10, he would have to have started weaker than his initial perfect power. no, he got a regular (30% imo) zenkai. broly only needs a 50% zenkai to fit what happened. still within the standard range. a 10x zenkai is just ridiculous. also, don't quote people and remove words. it's rude, and makes it look like you are trying to mislead. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Nusu | May 3 2011, 05:45 AM Post #14 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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Where is it stated that Cell wasn't powered up? He came back too earth to finish it, I doubt he makes the same mistake twice and suppresses.
Broly? Ultimate Form?
I don't remember Broly ever turning USSJ in the movie, and I hopefully doubt you mean the LSSJ, there are huge differences between the LSSJ and the USSJ. 1) Broly as LSSJ gains in height, USSJ Trunks stay's the same. 2) LSSJ Broly increases in speed, USSJ Trunks dosen't. 3) LSSJ Broly has no pupils, USSJ Trunks has them (Despite that he didn't had them while transforming either). 4) LSSJ Broly has recovering chi, USSJ Trunks dosen't. 5) Toei calls his form the LSSJ, nuff' said.
Oozaru is technically not even like a transformation like the SSJ. The Oozaru is a forced transformation only able to do during the Full Moon and you need a tail. Broly has no.
By Akira's design notes, he clearly states that Broly got stronger.
Can you back that up? With prove? Since everything indicates it is Post-RoSaT. Gohan's Hair. Goku's natural look in the space shuttle. The date the movie took place. etc.
Hardly. Because, Broly dominated both in the movie, where they were MSSJ.
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| + Pyrus | May 3 2011, 05:52 AM Post #15 |
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I seriously don't know why people still feel the need to call Broly's form anything other than Legendary Super Saiyan. That's what it is. Get over it. |
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